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BlogFaith in an age of science
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| 04-Apr-2009 05:01 PM Anonymous |  |
| I’m afraid Ruse is having you on. You may think he ‘respects’ your beliefs and regards theology as ‘legitimate’. But what he really wants, like most scientists, is for religious folk to keep their beliefs to themselves and stop sticking their scientifically illiterate noses where they don't belong - esp. when it comes to education. He and Dawkins are on the same team, they just use different methods. Ruse doesn't like Dawkins because he makes most Christians dig their heels in (i.e. if evolution implies that there is no need for an interventionist God to explain creation, then so much the worse for evolution). So Ruse has come up with a more pragmatic (and devious) strategy. He basically wants Christians to re-construe their beliefs as little more than a kind of parallel fiction. Go right ahead, he says: believe your creed, discuss it, write books about it, whatever you like. Ask all your unanswerable questions. Fire away. Make it up as you go along. Do whatever tickles your fantasy. But just don't assume that you’re saying anything TRUE about the world. Then we’ll all get along just fine. Best wishes, Anon. | |
| 17-Apr-2009 07:40 AM Vincent Sicari |  |
| Professor Ruse demonstrates that religion and science are not antithetical. It is very revealing for this argument to come from a self-proclaimed atheist. In my experience it is an argument that has been made by theists such as Francis Collins and others. Professor Ruse should be congratulated for doing what he says he is doing: that is, taking religion seriously. He obviously has a deep understanding of Christianity as it is understood by eminent thinkers of today (Collins, Polkinghorne) and yesterday (St Augustine). He admits that he just doesn't have faith. What an honest appoach he has to belief! Do Christians not believe that faith is a gift freely given by God? | |
| 20-Apr-2009 02:04 PM Anon. |  |
| Hi Vincent, your last question raises an old conundrum (of which I'm sure you are aware). To say that 'faith is a free gift from God' suggests that it is God who supplies us with (or removes the barriers to) faith. Now, apparently, our eternal fate rests entirely upon whether or not we have this ‘faith’! But how then can it possibly be fair that God should condemn someone like Ruse to eternal punishment? After all, it is God who has decided NOT to supply the poor fellow with faith? Ruse may THINK he has rejected Christianity, but actually God has rejected HIM. You might argue that Ruse, like any of us, is not entitled to the gift of faith (it wouldn't be a 'gift' otherwise). So he can hardly complain. He’s just getting what he deserves. Nevertheless, it does seem to follow that the whole business of who gets saved and who does not is, so far as WE can tell, entirely arbitrary. Worse still, it is something over which we have absolutely no control. We must simply await our pre-determined fate. I'd be interested to know what you think about all this. Cheers, Anon. | |
| 20-Apr-2009 10:17 PM Vincent Sicari | |
| Christians have thought that faith, and life itself, is a gift of God freely given because of His unconditional love for us. It is also said that we are created with free will and can accept this gift or reject it. As Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." | |
| 21-Apr-2009 01:22 PM Anon. | |
| Hi Vincent. The Ephesians text you quote claims that salvation is by grace, not by works. But, on your own account, it looks like that is just false. Let's assume that faith can only be obtained if God chooses to give it to us. That's the grace bit. But then you say that we have to accept it. That looks very much like an act on our part, something that we choose to do using our free will. But is not that kind of action the very definition of 'a work'? Hence, it is not MERELY by grace (the gift) that we are saved, but ALSO by works (our choosing to accept that gift). Cheers, Anon. | |
| 13-Sep-2009 08:17 PM Jeremy Smith | |
| Gday Anon, You probably won't return to read this, but it's all about who gets the final post isn't it? :D I think the difficulty you touch on seems to be with predestination and free will, and it is a tricky one. How are we in control of our choices if God is in control of everything? I won't try to answer that now (if I could!). Re the Ephesians text: I don't think faith is a formula, but more like saying 'yes' and turning myself towards God when he offers the gift of forgiveness and relationship. I think 'works' is about us trying to work our way closer to God, trying to justify ourselves, whereas Paul in Ephesians is saying that we are justified through God's forgiveness, a free gift, not our own efforts. This probably doesn't mean that much to you, but you never know. All the best | |
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